Ashtar Command Book Blog : The Great Crazy

Saturday, August 16, 2025

The Great Crazy

So I had to ask ChatGPT about the craziest grand conspiracy theory on-line (this side of David Icke)...

Can you tell me something about the Great Tartary / Mud Flood conspiracy theory?

Yes — the Great Tartary / Mud Flood conspiracy theory is one of those modern internet-born mashups of fringe history, alternative archaeology, and lost-civilization mythology.

Here’s a breakdown:

1. Core Claims

Great Tartary — Proponents say there was once a massive, advanced empire called “Tartary” or “Great Tartary” that covered most of Eurasia, from Siberia through Central Asia and into parts of Europe and North America.
Erased from History — They argue that this empire was deliberately erased from history books in the 18th–19th centuries, supposedly by “the powers that be” (often Britain, Russia, and other empires of the time) to hide knowledge of a superior civilization.
Mud Flood — The theory claims that in the 18th or 19th century, a worldwide cataclysm (“mud flood”) buried entire cities under several meters of earth, with many older buildings’ lower floors now being underground or half-buried.
Free Energy Technology — Supposedly, Tartary had advanced technology (especially free energy from “antique” architectural features like domes, spires, and star forts) that was suppressed.

2. “Evidence” Cited

Old maps — Historical maps (16th–18th c.) label Central Asia as “Tartary,” which was simply a European geographic term for regions inhabited by Turkic and Mongol peoples — not proof of a unified advanced empire.
Buried windows/doors — Urban photos showing street-level windows partly underground are said to prove the “mud flood,” when in fact many are due to later street regrading or construction changes.
Ornate architecture — Large 18th–19th century buildings are claimed to be too advanced for their era, supposedly “inherited” from Tartary rather than built by the known historical cultures.
World’s Fairs buildings — The grand temporary palaces of 19th-century expositions are cited as Tartarian structures “destroyed after use” to hide the truth.

3. Origins of the Theory

It’s a recent internet phenomenon, gaining momentum around 2016–2018 on YouTube, Reddit, and fringe history forums.
Combines older “hidden history” ideas with:
- New Chronology theories from Russia (Anatoly Fomenko).
- 19th-century “catastrophist” geology.
- Steampunk aesthetics and fascination with lost empires.

4. Scholarly Position

Historians, archaeologists, and geographers reject the claims:

“Tartary” was a vague European term, not a secret empire.
No geological evidence supports a recent worldwide “mud flood.”
Architectural “mysteries” are explainable by standard engineering and urban development history.
It functions more as pseudohistory and modern myth-making than actual historiography.

5. Why People Find It Appealing

Romanticizes a lost, utopian civilization.
Distrust of official history and institutions.
The visual lure of old maps, strange architecture, and atmospheric photographs.
Feeds into a broader cultural appetite for “hidden truths” and alternative narratives.

If you want, I can map out how “Great Tartary” evolved from a real geographical term in historical maps into today’s internet conspiracy narrative — the transformation is surprisingly fast and well-documented.

Can you tell me more about the Russian "New Chronology"?

Yes — the Russian “New Chronology” is one of the biggest “alternative history” systems ever constructed, and it’s directly comparable in scope to Great Tartary theories, though it’s even more sweeping.

1. Origins

Developed mainly by Anatoly Fomenko (b. 1945), a mathematician at Moscow State University, along with fellow mathematician Gleb Nosovsky.
Started in the late Soviet period (1970s–80s), but gained traction in Russia after the USSR collapsed, when distrust of Western narratives and Soviet history was very high.
Fomenko claims to be applying statistical and astronomical analysis to rewrite world history.

2. Core Claims

Most ancient and medieval history is fabricated.
- The “true” written history of humankind begins around AD 800–1000.
- Events before that are either invented or are duplicates of later events, misdated and renamed.
Biblical and medieval history are the same events.
- For example, the Trojan War = the Crusades.
- Biblical Jerusalem was actually Constantinople.
- Jesus lived in the 12th century and was crucified in Constantinople.
The “Mongol Empire” = the Russian Empire.
- The “Tartars” or “Mongols” were actually Russians (often identified with the Cossacks).
- The Russian state once ruled a vast Eurasian “super-empire” that has been erased from history.
Western Europe stole Russian history.
- Western historians in the Renaissance (notably Scaliger and Petavius in the 16th–17th centuries) supposedly created the false “ancient” and “classical” past to elevate Rome and diminish Russia’s role.

3. Methodology

Fomenko uses:
- Statistical analysis of texts (word frequencies, narrative structures) to claim many historical documents are copies of each other under different names.
- Astronomical dating of eclipses in chronicles to “prove” that ancient events actually happened in the Middle Ages.
- Selective interpretation of maps, architecture, and art.

4. Political / Cultural Context

Appeals strongly to Russian nationalist sentiment, since it reframes Russia as the true center of world civilization.
Dovetails neatly with Great Tartary ideas — in fact, some Tartary believers treat Fomenko’s “Russian Empire = Mongol Empire” as a scholarly backbone for their theory.
In Russia, it’s sold in large multi-volume sets and even covered in mainstream talk shows.
Outside Russia, it’s fringe, though it has small followings among “hidden history” enthusiasts.

5. Criticism

Historians, archaeologists, linguists, and astronomers universally reject it.
Misuses statistical methods and cherry-picks data.
Ignores or dismisses physical evidence (stratigraphy, radiocarbon dating, dendrochronology).
Known to conflate artistic symbolism with literal record (e.g., taking medieval illustrations as photographs of real events).

6. Overlaps with Other Fringe Theories

With Great Tartary: Both posit a huge erased Eurasian empire and claim historical erasure by Western powers.
With Ancient Tech claims: Fomenko’s Russia often has “advanced” infrastructure in the Middle Ages.
With Flat Earth: Small overlap — mostly in the mutual distrust of astronomy as practiced today, but Fomenko himself doesn’t push flat earth.

If you like, I can outline exactly how Fomenko’s “New Chronology” and Great Tartary merge into one mega-theory in some online communities — it’s quite a tangle. Would you like me to do that next?

Yes, please!

Alright — here’s how Fomenko’s “New Chronology” and the Great Tartary / Mud Flood narrative often fuse together into one giant “hidden history” storyline in certain online circles.

1. Shared Premise

Both theories start from the same foundational suspicion:

“Official history is a deliberate fabrication by Western elites to hide a glorious, advanced past.”

Fomenko: says the “Mongol Empire” was actually the medieval Russian Empire, a highly advanced Eurasian power.
Great Tartary: says a vast civilization (“Tartary”) once covered most of Eurasia, technologically superior, and was erased in the 18th–19th centuries.

Because they both involve a lost mega-empire in Eurasia and suppression of its legacy, they are easy to merge.

2. Merging of Empires

In the blended theory:

“Tartary” = Fomenko’s Russian/Mongol superstate.
This state ruled from the Pacific to Eastern Europe, often extending into North America (via “Old World” colonies).
Capital cities are placed in Tobolsk, Moscow, or even Samarkand, depending on the variant.

3. Mud Flood as the “Reset”

Here’s where Mud Flood ideas come in:

Fomenko explains the “erasure” of this empire as a textual fraud by Western historians.
Mud Flood believers replace or augment that explanation with a global cataclysm in the early–mid 1800s.
This “mud flood” supposedly buried cities, destroyed Tartary’s tech, and allowed Britain, Rome, and the Vatican to rewrite the past.

4. Reframing of Events

The fusion theory tends to reinterpret major historical moments:

Napoleonic Wars: really a last-ditch fight between Tartary (Russia) and the Western alliance.
Crimean War (1853–56): framed as the final destruction of Tartary, not a regional war.
Industrial Revolution: not invention, but re-discovery of Tartarian tech after the mud flood.
Colonial Empires: “cover story” for reclaiming lost Tartary territories.

5. “Advanced Tech” Angle

Both theories feed into claims of:

Star forts as “power stations.”
Railroads, giant cannons, and massive masonry being Tartarian tech.
Atmospheric energy systems (think “free energy towers”).
Architecture in European cities and the US as proof of a global Tartarian aesthetic.

6. Why They Fit So Well Together

Mutual distrust of archaeology, carbon dating, and conventional timelines.
Romantic nationalism: paints Eurasia (often specifically Russia) as a betrayed civilizational heart.
Open-ended mythos: Great Tartary is so loosely defined that Fomenko’s dates and places can be plugged in without much conflict.
The geographical overlap is near-perfect — both place their mega-empire across Siberia, Central Asia, and Eastern Europe.

7. Differences That Cause Friction

Fomenko puts the “fall” of the empire mostly around 1600–1700, whereas Mud Flood believers prefer a 19th-century reset.
Fomenko’s work is text-heavy and “scholarly-looking”; Mud Flood theory relies more on photographic anomalies and architecture.
Fomenko’s followers don’t always accept the more extreme tech claims (e.g., free energy domes), though some do.

If you like, I can map out a timeline of “world history” according to this merged Tartary–New Chronology–Mud Flood narrative, so you can see exactly how they reshape events from 1000 AD to the 1900s. That’s where it gets really… creative.

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