Santoshi...who?

 

Credit: Nishu0246

Tonight´s ChatGPT essay. ;-) It seems Hindus are still busy inventing new deities to this very day. Plz don´t tell the local unfriendly atheist society, they won´t understand...

Who is Santoshi Mata?

Santoshi Māta (literally “Mother of Satisfaction” or “Mother of Contentment”) is a relatively modern Hindu goddess, widely worshipped across North India since the mid–20th century.

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🌼 Origins

• She is not mentioned in ancient texts like the Vedas, Purāṇas, or Epics.

• Santoshi Māta’s cult became popular after the 1975 Hindi devotional film “Jai Santoshi Maa”, which portrayed her as a compassionate, miracle-working mother goddess answering the prayers of simple devotees.

• Since then, her worship spread rapidly, especially among women and lower–middle-class households, where she came to be seen as a protector and provider of domestic peace and prosperity.

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🌼 Identity

• Often regarded as a daughter of Ganesha in modern popular belief, though this is not scripturally attested in older traditions.

• Her name Santoshi means “she who gives satisfaction/contentment,” suggesting her role as one who blesses devotees with peace of mind and fulfillment, rather than excessive wealth or power.

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🌼 Worship

• Her main ritual is the Santoshi Māta Vrat (Friday fast):

  • Devotees, especially women, fast on Fridays for 16 consecutive weeks.

  • They take a simple meal, avoid sour foods (like curd, tamarind, pickles) since sourness symbolizes discontent.

  • They perform a small pūjā with jaggery and chickpeas (gur–chana), her favorite offerings.

• At the end of the vrat, devotees often sponsor a feast for small boys (symbolizing Ganesha’s sons).

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🌼 Iconography

• Usually depicted as a simple, benevolent mother goddess, seated or standing, holding a sword and a trident (symbols of power), sometimes with her hands in blessing gestures.

• Unlike Durga or Kālī, her appearance is gentle and approachable, reflecting her role as a household deity of satisfaction and domestic well-being.

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🌼 Themes

• She represents contentment, patience, and faith.

• Her cult emphasizes that through devotion, simplicity, and fasting discipline, one can overcome poverty, quarrels, or dissatisfaction in life.

• She embodies a more accessible, “everyday” form of the Goddess, as opposed to the grand cosmic goddesses of Sanskrit texts.

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✨ In short: Santoshi Māta is a modern household goddess of contentment, often thought of as Ganesha’s daughter, whose Friday vrat and worship became hugely popular after the 1970s.

Would you like me to also tell you how traditional Hindus (esp. Purāṇic scholars) view her sudden appearance in the pantheon, and whether they consider her “authentic”?

Yes, please. Is she an "invented" goddess?

Excellent question. Santoshi Māta is one of the most interesting examples of how the Hindu pantheon grows in real time.

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📜 Scholarly View: An “Invented” Goddess?

• No mention in ancient texts: Santoshi Māta does not appear in the Vedas, Upaniṣads, Epics, or Purāṇas.

• First references appear in the early 20th century in local pamphlets and oral tales in North India.

• Mass popularity exploded only after the 1975 Bollywood devotional film Jai Santoshi Maa. This movie gave her a mythic backstory (as a daughter of Ganesha) and spread her cult across India.

• From a historian’s standpoint, she is a modern, invented goddess, created through popular devotion, cinema, and folk religiosity.

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🌸 Devotional View: A Real Goddess

• In Hinduism, new forms of the Divine Mother are always emerging. The Goddess (Śakti) is believed to be infinite, taking on new names and forms to meet the needs of the times.

• Devotees argue: “She must be real, because she answers prayers.”

• For them, her absence in old scriptures doesn’t matter. The power of śraddhā (faith) itself “calls” the goddess into manifest form.

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🪔 Theological Context

• Santoshi Māta fits into a long tradition of “local” or “folk” goddesses (grama-devatās, kul-devīs) being absorbed into broader Hindu practice.

• Just as village goddesses like Mariamman in Tamil Nadu or Muthyalamma in Karnataka became recognized Shakti forms, Santoshi Māta entered mainstream worship.

• In fact, Hinduism itself expects new emanations of the Goddess (Śakti) to appear in different ages (yugas) according to the needs of devotees.

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🎭 The Myth of Santoshi Māta (from the 1975 film and pamphlet traditions)

• She is said to be the daughter of Ganesha, born when his sons asked for a sister.

• She grants satisfaction (santoṣa) and harmony in households.

• Her worship emphasizes simple devotion, fasting, and moral restraint, not costly rituals — which made her very popular among poorer women.

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✦ Conclusion

• Yes, from a historical perspective, Santoshi Māta is an invented goddess — she emerged in the 20th century through popular culture, not scriptural tradition.

• But in the Hindu devotional framework, she is as real as any ancient deity, because divinity is believed to manifest wherever devotion flows.

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Would you like me to also compare Santoshi Māta’s rise with other modern or “newly revealed” deities in Hinduism, like Swaminarayan, ISKCON’s Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Shirdi Sai Baba — to see how “new gods” get accepted? 

Is Santoshi Ma a goddess mostly worshipped by the poor?

That’s a very perceptive question, because yes — her cult has a clear social profile.

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🌼 Santoshi Māta and Class

• From her rise in the 1960s–70s, Santoshi Māta became especially beloved among lower–middle-class and working-class women.

• The main reasons:

  • Her Friday vrat is simple, inexpensive, and easy to perform at home.

  • Her offerings (gur – jaggery and chana – chickpeas) are cheap and accessible compared to costly temple rituals.

  • She promises contentment and relief from domestic troubles (poverty, quarrels, childlessness, drunken husbands, in-laws’ hostility) — very real issues for poor and lower-income families.

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🪔 Contrast with “High” Goddesses

• Classical goddesses like Lakṣmī, Durgā, or Kālī have elaborate pūjās, temple traditions, Sanskrit mantras, and Brahmin priests.

• Santoshi Māta, by contrast, is a grassroots, household goddess. No priest needed, no Sanskrit necessary. Women could perform her vrat independently, giving them a direct religious channel.

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🎥 The 1975 Film

• The movie Jai Santoshi Maa was made on a small budget, but became a huge hit among poorer cinema-goers, who even treated it like a temple ritual (taking off shoes, throwing offerings at the screen).

• This cemented her image as the “people’s goddess”, answering the cries of the humble and overlooked.

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🌍 Current Status

• Today, Santoshi Māta temples exist in many cities, and her worship has spread beyond class boundaries.

• But she still remains especially associated with women seeking household peace, prosperity, and relief from hardships, making her strongly connected to lower- and middle-income communities.

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✅ So, in short: Yes, Santoshi Māta is most strongly associated with the poor and lower classes, because her cult offers a low-cost, accessible, and emotionally direct form of devotion — and this is exactly why she spread so quickly.

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Would you like me to also explain why Friday fasting (her key ritual) is so significant in women’s religious lives across Hinduism, and how it empowered Santoshi Māta’s rise?

Carousel

 

I hope this is just one man´s paranoia (after that Lovecraftian extravaganza the other night). If not...well, this is the kaliyuga so what did you expect? I mean, like really?

Australia is in the wrong place, mate

 

Which are the most stupid conspiracy theories? Difficult to say, since the competition is pretty damn stiff. However, strong candidates would include the Mandela effect, flat earthism, the Moon landing hoax, and pretty much everything about Great Tartary and the Mud Flood. 

Even "the face on Mars" was "better", since those who believed in it could at least point to photos of the Mars surface where one strange structure *did* look like an alien face. They had pics to prove it. But what the heck do flat earthers have? A Kansas corn field? Sure, I concede that it *does* look flat...

Some of the above conspiracy theories are extremely multifaceted. The Mandela effect includes pretty much everything that has been misremembered or misunderstood by larger groups of people. For instance, that Australia looked different on older maps. Yeah, that´s because there´s more than one map projection, bruh. Or that certain lines in old movies feel "wrong" when the movie is rewatched 30 years later. Yeah, that´s because your memory isn´t flawless. Or because the movie exists in several different versions. Or because you confused it with MAD magazine´s parody version. And what about the Bible? Didn´t the Lord´s prayer use to sound differently? Well, yeah, probably. That´s because there´s more than one Bible edition...

Or maybe you´re a loser who lives in a trailer park together with low IQ White trash? I´m kidding, but seriously, find another hobby!

In a similar vein, Great Tartary and the Mud Flood seems to be a veritable Oak Island treasure trove of misinformation about our past. Was Stonehenge really built after World War II? Were the Napoleonic Wars actually a nuclear war? You get the picture. 

I happen to have an open mind concerning the supernatural or paranormal. But if people make up so much shit about natural events, how can I trust them when they speak of supernatural ditto? But perhaps I´m looking at this the wrong way. The fact that people are bad observers and serial confabulators might mean that something unknown, something strange, supernatural even, could be hiding from us. Perhaps in plain sight.

Maybe that´s the real conspiracy. 

 

Did I break your concentration?

 

Am I just imagining things, or does the Swedish government-owned energy company Vattenfall just release an ad for wind turbines featuring Samuel L Jackson?!

Welcome to the Vortex

 

John Michael Greer´s latest essay.

Talking back to flying heads

Geezus, what a mind job

 

This is some kind of click bait. Apparently, conservative Christians object to Jesus being starred by a Black Queer woman (!) in the most recent version of "Jesus Christ Superstar". 

Yes, really. "Jesus Christ Superstar". So the conservative Christians are in effect complaining that a *liberal* version of Jesus has become...even more liberal?! Geezus, what a mind job. Whaddya say to a thing like that?

Maybe somebody should tell them that "Jesus Christ Superstar" was always, you know, anti-Christian or something.

Just another Tuesday on the interwebs, bruh. 

The heat is on

 

"Red Heat" is a somewhat strange film released in 1988, starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, James Belushi and Lawrence Fishburne. I recently watched it on a Swedish TV channel, where it was marketed as a "comedy". Ahem, I beg you pardon? More like an extravaganza in Murder One (and some mayhem) if you ask me! But sure, Arnie and Belushi do try to add some comic relief here and there. Arnold usually by not smiling at all. He´s supposed to be a hard boiled Communist police officer from the old Soviet Union! 

The film was made during Gorbachev´s perestroika/glasnost, which may explain why the Russians are the "good guys" in this production. The "Soviet" segments were actually taped in Hungary, at the time the most "liberal" Eastern bloc nation. Curiously, "Red Heat" is so Russophile that it even assimilated Russian racism against non-Russian ethnic groups in the old Soviet Union. The villain is a Georgian (from Georgia south of Russia) and another bad guy is described as a "Mongolian hippie"...

On the American end, the bad guys are African-Americans and led by a certain Abdul Elijah, who turns out to be a Black supremacist, Marxist and drug kingpin. He is clearly intended as a hybrid between Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X (or perhaps the Black Panthers). Abdul hates all White people with equal gusto, including...Russians. OK, so there is little Wokeness in this film, if you get the drift.

And yes, I noticed that the bus at the end was marked "American Liberty Lines". Perhaps interesting as cultural studies in 2025?

  

Listen, Skeptic!

 

 

Can we please stop talking about the flat earth? It´s 2025, fam. Or is every monetized midwit (a.k.a. Skeptic) on YouTube just going through the motions at this point? 

Maybe some Biden-appointed judge can issue an injunction and block all flat earth-related content on the accursed interwebs? 

Meanwhile, enjoy the ape-imitation content above.

The invasion of the body snatchers

 

A Christian content-creator who calls himself "The Tentative Apologist" discusses atheist fundamentalism, which often mirrors religious ditto. This is definitely a thing. I´m old enough to remember when Bart Ehrman was treated as a treacherous apostate by his fellow ateistas for daring to suggest that Jesus actually was a real historical person. They went full "body snatcher" on the man. As in "Reeeeee"!!! The guy who simply switches to the opposite worldview while remaining just as dogmatic is also a thing. A classical example from Cold War political culture is the Communist turned anti-Communist who becomes a kind of "conservative Pravda". 

However, I think Mr Tentative is wrong on one score. He says that fundamentalists deny being fundamentalists. This may be the case in a community ostensibly based on skepticism and critical thinking, but I know from my own experience that many fanatics are quite proud of their zealotry, ideological purity and unwavering conviction. Yes, that includes advocates of certain atheistic worldviews. Trotskyism and Marxism-Leninism are two examples (this sentence is an "acid test", btw. The guy in the commentary section below who says "WHAT DO YOU MEAN, ONLY TROTSKYISTS ARE REAL MARXIST-LENINISTS" is excatly the kind of dude bro I´m refering to here). 

In a sense, it´s actually stranger to be a religious fundamentalist than a secular one, since the former is zelous about things he can´t even perceive! And yet, here we are...  

Exorcists on TikTok

 

Here we go again. 20 years ago, there was an unconfirmed claim on the internets that Christian fundamentalists opposed the Smurfs (for all kinds of unrelated reasons). Not sure if that was even true, or some kind of anti-Xian satire, but these days the memes make themselves.

A new toy line known as Labubus (and the rip-off version Lafufus) has created pandemonium on TikTok, with misguided believers claiming that the adorable critters are demon-possesed, specifically by the Sumerian demon Pazuzu. Which would have been completely unknown to the layperson...had it not been for "The Exorcist".

Guys, I´m sure there is real evil out there (I don´t know, Epstein or something) so stop obsessing about some Chinese collectible elves, please!   

This is the world atheists want

 

Bring it on, LOL. 

Meta-Matrix

 

AI´s perhaps self-ironic response
to the prompt "Neo, Trinity and Morpheus"!

So I finally watched "The Matrix Resurrections", the sequel to the Matrix trilogy. The film reminds me of installments two and three in said trilogy, but also adds a peculiar twist. It´s actually self-ironic. And if there´s something "The Matrix" concept never was, it´s self-ironic. Welcome to...the Meta-Matrix?! The film even makes fun of the conflict between Warner Brothers and the Wachowski sisters concerning the future of the franchise!

The plot is set sixty years after the original films. Thomas Anderson is a succesful game developer living out his life in a bustling early 21st century metropolis. Anderson´s most popular game is called "The Matrix" and is freely based on strange and apparently delusional memories he tries to suppress by consuming blue pills recommended by his shrink. He also has an inexplicable crush on an MC-obsessed woman named Tiffany.

Of course, it soon turns out that the memories are real (but we knew that already). Tom is really Neo, while Tiffany is Trinity. Anderson´s boss is none other than Agent Smith, while most inhabitants of the big city are zombified bots (but I´m repeating myself). The evil machines have rebuilt the Matrix, the gigantic interactive computer simulation which keeps humanity in thrall. They managed to resurrect Neo and Trinity from the dead and re-inserted them into the system. When Morpheus also comes back from the dead in the form of an avatar and frees Neo from his bondage, the stage is set for yet another confrontation between man and technics.

Some things are different, however. Some machines have sided with the free humans. Agent Smith has less of a grudge against Neo than usual. The previously classy Merovingian looks like a tramp. And despite the constant humorous jabs at the old franchise, the underlying tone actually seems darker. One central idea in "Matrix Resurrections" is that humanity as a whole is easily manipulated and really doesn´t want to be saved. As already noted, the humans have been possessed by bots and become a kind of zombies. This is an obvious nod to the NPC meme. Funny, since the Wachowski brothers-cum-sisters didn´t like how the Alt Right appropriated the "red pill" from the first movie. But the idea that most people are NPCs is of course also associated with the Alt Right...

Note also that the chief crook is The Analyst, who is indeed a psychoanalyst. This could be interpreted as psychology or psychiatry being evil for holding us back from our divine birthright, instead "adapting" us to the mundane existence of post-modern civilization (and boredom). Not sure why this plays such a prominent part of the plot, though. Sounds a bit too much like Scientology!

In the end, love conquers all and the liberated Neo and Trinity fly away sky-bound, perhaps awaiting their next resurrection...

   

Angel is rising

 

"Angel Has Fallen" from 2019 is a fascinating American action film. Both it and its 2013 precursor "Olympus Has Fallen" must have looked extremely unrealistic when they were released. The plots of both movies revolve around terrorist attacks and various high level conspiracies. 

In the first movie, North Korean commandos take the US president hostage to force an American military withdrawal from the Korean peninsula. Soon half of the White House goes up in flames! The evil Reds even manage to take over some kind of all-powerful AI system which apparently controls the US nuclear arsenal. "Angel Has Fallen" is even less realistic. This time, a private military contractor tries to kill the POTUS with a drone swarm on behalf of the vice president who wants to start a war with Russia. At another point, an entire hospital is blown sky high. Oh, and there´s the old guy in the wood cabin who single-handedly kills 100+ mercenaries coming right at him?! 

Or *are* they unrealistic? In 2025, both films look like freakin´ documentaries. Obviously because of all the Trump stuff. Or even the anti-Trump ditto. Which brings me to a few peculiar things I noticed about "Angel Has Fallen"...

The film´s president, Allan Trumbull, is obviously a liberal Democrat. I mean, he´s Black (starred by Morgan Freeman, no less). He also comes across as a wise elder statesman. Interestingly, he wants peace with Russia and is seen as a candidate for change. By contrast, the vice president is a war hawk who almost comes across as a stereotypical Republican or Neo-Conservative, including his connections with a powerful private security firm which makes profit by starting new wars.

But please note that in 2019, this would have aligned the fictitious Trumbull with the very real Donald Trump! *He* was seen (rightly or wrongly) as the "peace candidate", indeed, Trump was even accused of "Russian collusion" by...the Democrats. Yes, the Neo-Cons (including Trump´s vice president Mike Pence) were hawks, but so where the main-stream liberal Democrats. That Trumbull is a stand-in for Trump would also explain a weird anomaly in the narrative. The militia (usually seen as far right and pro-Trump) seems to support Trumbull! The mountain militia at the gas station tries to arrest agent Mike Banning (wrongly assuming he tried to kill the president). And Banning´s very own father turns out to be a militia guy and conspiracy theorist. He´s even compared to the Unabomber! Yet, Clay Banning is one of the good guys, eventually siding with his son and de facto with Trumbull.

Note also that the fiery scene at Clay´s shack is really a kind of New World Order conspiracy narrative. The kook in the woods turns out to be right: foreign mercenery soldiers on US soil really do try to take over the federal government and take out the lone truth-teller, who flees with a type-writer and his manifesto...but not before he treats them to a full Rambo-esque extravaganza.

To sum up: "Angel Has Fallen" looks like an extremely strange attempt to synthesize pro-peace left-liberalism with macho daring and even some kind of barely hidden far right themes. I admit I was both intrigued and entertained. I´m still trying to comprehend the New Age fluff during the end credits. Eh?

With those reflections, I leave you. For now.          

Fidelio

 

Overheard on X (yes, it´s Alt Right gadfly Richard Spencer): "As Trump pivots towards supporting Ukraine militarily—as I predicted—the possibility that a more detailed Epstein client list will be leaked goes up. I say this because Russia might very well acquire it, and Trump is most definitely on it!"

Also, check out this truly weird thread, if you have access to X. Fidelio!

A veiled threat?

 

Proximity

 

 

Judging by the recap, this is an extremely bad film. Which is probably a pity, since it contains one interesting idea: the aliens (yes, Greys) are looking for Jesus! It´s even implied that Jesus was the Son of God and ascended to heaven?! The rest of the flick seems to be the usual Transformer/ugly computer geek gets girlfriend/BAU conspiracy stuff. Since the aliens are the good guyz despite looking demonic, plz don´t tell Doreen Virtue! 

Jurassic afterbirth

 

A brutal review of the latest Jurassic Park/World movie. I haven´t seen it, but yeah, the "Jurassic Park" sequels are generally shaky. Besides, wasn´t the original plan to kill this franchise already a couple of years ago?

Where *is* that iridium meteorite when you finally need it? LOL! 

American patriotism made in Sweden?

 

So the Swedish cabel network TV6 just showed "Independence Day". And yes, today is July 4. While contemplating this curious co-incidence, it struck me that they showed US-patriot films all week: "Olympus has fallen", "Angel has fallen", "Patriots Day", "White House Down" and now "ID4". Note the exclusion of "London has fallen"! 

OK, some of those films were quite good as action flicks go, but it still looks a bit weird that a Swedish TV network goes all in with American nationalism. The Trump factor? Or just one of those things? No idea.

Thanx for the entertainment, I suppose.  

AI is good, actually

 

You preach it, boy!  

Three men in a boat

 

So I re-watched “Jaws”. I never grokked this production the first couple of times I saw it. It hardly scared me and I found it boring! Today, I rather consider it very, very strange. Indeed, it comes across as two entirely different films. The first half is a rather (stereo)typical horror flick with all the usual ingredients. The monster attacks a wholesome all-American resort, munching on stoned hippies, children and stupid hillbillies. There is an idiot mayor, a scientific genius and a stable police officer just trying to do his job. OK, maybe it´s a *bit* original. Like the tiger shark who turns out to be a rare guest from Louisiana!

The second half is the real “Jaws”. The three main characters Brody, Hooper and Quint confront the super-sized shark in a boat that´s obviously too small and fragile (rather than calling the coast guard or navy). Quint turns out to be half-mad and personally obsessed with killing great white sharks. He is the “Captain Ahab” of the story. The whole thing makes zero sense, except as a bizarre male rite of passage. The shark is too large and too intelligent to be a normal animal. Indeed, it seems to be intrinsically *evil*.

Speculations about allegorical meaning are difficult to fend off. The three men on the worthless barge represent different kinds of Americans, perhaps different generations: the old and crazy war veteran Quint (who is presumably working class), the middle-aged and middle-class police officer, and the young well-educated scientist (implied to be upper class). Is this a vision of an America united against its external enemies? (“Jaws” was released in 1975.) Or is the shark a symbol of Nature showing its fangs? 

It´s intriguing to note that the irrational sailor Quint and the “rational” scientist Hooper turn out to be equally crazy (at least after a fashion). It´s also interesting that the person who eventually kills the shark is Brody, the stable White middle-class guy with an official police badge. He does so in the old fashioned way – with a rifle and some explosives – while Quint and Hooper tried various alternative techniques which completely failed. Order has been restored on Amity Island (note the 4^th July parade – Amity is of course a symbol for America and its proverbial way of life). At least it´s been temporarily restored until the sequels, but Steven Spielberg had nothing to do with those.

So I suppose “Jaws” is at least somewhat interesting…

Contact

 

This night´s ChatGPT essay! 

Are there any differences between Carl Sagan´s novel "Contact" and the film "Contact" featuring Jodie Foster?

Yes, there are several notable differences between Carl Sagan’s 1985 novel Contact and the 1997 film adaptation starring Jodie Foster. While both tell essentially the same core story—humans receiving a message from extraterrestrials and building a machine to make contact—the themes, character arcs, and details differ significantly.

1. Number of Travelers

• Novel: Five people (including Ellie Arroway) travel through the wormhole to Vega. Each has a different background, emphasizing international cooperation and the unifying potential of contact.

• Film: Only Ellie travels in the machine. The movie streamlines the narrative for dramatic focus and clarity.

2. Religious Themes

• Novel: Religion and science are discussed, but the tone is more balanced and philosophical. Ellie is an atheist but open to dialogue.

• Film: The religious conflict is much more central. The film heightens the tension between faith and science, especially with the inclusion of Palmer Joss, a Christian theologian and Ellie's love interest, who plays a much larger role than in the book.

3. The Message’s Meaning

• Novel: After the journey, Ellie discovers a hidden message in the digits of π—a kind of cosmic signature that suggests an intelligent design underlying the universe. This is one of the most profound philosophical points in the book.

• Film: This part is omitted entirely. The film ends with Ellie’s testimony being doubted and her faith in her own experience becoming central.

4. Ellie’s Character Background

• Novel: Her upbringing, personal development, and scientific career are deeply explored. Her relationship with her father is key, and her estrangement from her mother is detailed.

• Film: The film also emphasizes her father but omits the tension with her mother and simplifies her backstory somewhat to focus on her emotional drive and skepticism.

5. Palmer Joss

• Novel: A relatively minor character.

• Film: Elevated to a major role, both romantically and thematically. He becomes a central voice for faith, acting as a foil to Ellie’s scientific worldview.

6. Machine’s Outcome

• Novel: The travelers experience alien contact, but when they return, there's no evidence—only 18 hours of static, suggesting their experience was real but unverifiable.

• Film: Similar outcome, but only Ellie travels, and her story is treated more ambiguously, with a strong focus on the conflict between empirical evidence and subjective experience.

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Summary

Element	Novel (1985)	Film (1997)
Number of travelers	Five	One (Ellie)
Religion theme	Subtle, balanced	Central, emphasized
Hidden message (π)	Included as cosmic signature	Omitted
Palmer Joss	Minor character	Major role
Machine experience	Shared, real but unverifiable	Ambiguous, individual
Tone	Philosophical, exploratory	Emotional, dramatic

Both versions reflect Carl Sagan's vision of science as a quest for truth, but the novel is more expansive and cerebral, while the film is more character-driven and focused on emotional and thematic contrasts. 

Was Carl Sagan actually a pantheist or theist? Wasn´t he an atheist?

Carl Sagan is best described as a skeptical agnostic with pantheistic leanings, rather than a strict atheist or theist.

Here's a breakdown of his views:

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🔬 1. Atheism vs. Agnosticism

Sagan rejected traditional theism—the belief in a personal, anthropomorphic God who intervenes in the world. He often critiqued organized religion, miracles, and dogma. However, he did not identify as an atheist in the strong, assertive sense of "there is no God." Instead, he said:

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do to be sure that no such God exists."

This makes Sagan an agnostic, at least by his own definition—he thought the question of God's existence was open but lacked evidence.

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🌌 2. Pantheism and the "God of Spinoza"

Sagan frequently expressed awe and reverence toward the universe itself, using language similar to that of Baruch Spinoza or Einstein, both of whom saw "God" as the totality of nature, not a personal deity. Sagan once said:

"Some people think God is an old man with a white beard sitting on a throne. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God."

This is essentially pantheism—the idea that God is identical with nature or the cosmos. But Sagan typically used this language metaphorically, not as a literal belief in divinity.

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✨ 3. Spirituality Without Superstition

Sagan advocated a kind of scientific spirituality: profound awe, wonder, and humility in the face of the cosmos, without belief in the supernatural.

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.”

So while he rejected religious faith, he deeply valued the emotional and existential depth often associated with it—just grounded in evidence and curiosity rather than dogma.

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✅ Summary of Carl Sagan’s Belief Orientation:

Concept	Carl Sagan’s Position
Theism	Rejected (especially personal/interventionist gods)
Atheism	Rejected strong atheism; open to evidence
Agnosticism	Affirmed (called himself agnostic)
Pantheism	Sympathetic, metaphorical (Spinozan style)
Spirituality	Affirmed through science and wonder

So, no—Sagan wasn't a conventional theist or atheist. He was a scientifically grounded agnostic, often associated with pantheistic awe, and always skeptical of claims without evidence.

I´m asking because you said that in "Contact", Ellie discovers evidence for intelligent design. That´s not how I would expect an atheist to write a novel.

Great observation—and you're right to pause at that. On the surface, it does seem paradoxical that Carl Sagan, a well-known skeptic and scientific thinker, would write a novel (Contact) in which the protagonist discovers evidence for intelligent design hidden in the digits of π.

But it's not a contradiction when seen in context. Let’s unpack it.

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🔍 What Ellie Finds in the Novel

At the end of Contact, Ellie discovers that far out in the digits of π (when calculated in base-11), there's a pattern—a perfect circle encoded in the digits. This suggests that:

1. The structure of mathematics itself contains meaningful information.

2. That this might be a signature embedded by the creators of the universe—a kind of cosmic watermark.

This is not "intelligent design" in the religious or creationist sense (like in ID movements today). Instead, it's speculative science fiction exploring the philosophical idea: What if the very fabric of mathematics hinted at a deeper intelligence or order?

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🧠 Why Would a Scientific Skeptic Write That?

Because Sagan loved to explore "what ifs"—not to argue that such things were true, but to expand the imagination within a framework of scientific plausibility.

Key points to understand his intention:

• It’s not a proof of God, but a hint that the universe might be designed in a way that is discoverable and meaningful at a deep level.

• The message is hidden in mathematics, not religious texts—it's accessible only through science.

• The discovery doesn’t resolve the God question. Ellie is still uncertain, and it adds mystery rather than certainty.

Sagan was also clearly aware that humans have a deep psychological need for meaning, and the story respects that tension between skepticism and wonder. It's meant to blur the line between science and spirituality without abandoning rigor.

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📚 In Sagan’s Own Words

Sagan once said:

“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”

He didn't mean that literally—the cosmos doesn't have a mind—but rather poetically, expressing the idea that through us, the universe becomes aware. Similarly, the π discovery in Contact is not a theological argument, but a speculative narrative about cosmic intelligence—possibly natural, possibly deeper than we can grasp.

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✅ So, to clarify:

• Carl Sagan was not promoting intelligent design as religion.

• The π message is a fictional device, used to pose the question: What would it mean if the universe itself hinted at intentionality?

• It fits within his pantheistic, exploratory, science-based wonder, not theism or creationism.

If anything, it’s an invitation to be humble in the face of mystery, while keeping the scientific method firmly in hand.

Is Carl Sagan´s son Dorion Sagan a more "pure" pantheist?

Yes, you could reasonably describe Dorion Sagan, Carl Sagan’s son, as more explicitly pantheistic than his father—especially in the philosophical and poetic sense of the term. While Carl leaned heavily toward scientific agnosticism infused with reverence for the cosmos, Dorion’s writings show a deeper embrace of nature-as-divinity, influenced by systems theory, post-Darwinian biology, and cosmic ecology.

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🧬 Dorion Sagan’s Intellectual World

Dorion is not just Carl’s son—he's a prolific science writer, essayist, and philosophical thinker in his own right. He often writes about life, consciousness, thermodynamics, sex, and evolution in deeply interconnected ways, sometimes with quasi-spiritual overtones. His collaborations with his mother, the biologist Lynn Margulis, especially shaped his view of life as relational, emergent, and systemic.

Some key themes in his work:

• Gaia theory: He supports the idea of the Earth as a self-regulating system (not mystical, but cybernetic and ecological).

• Thermodynamics and life: He often describes life as a planetary phenomenon that dissipates energy, which he poetically links to cosmic processes.

• Eroticism and biology: He uses metaphor and symbolic language to explore life’s “desires”—not as literal consciousness, but as a poetic ontology of nature.

These ideas often border on naturalistic pantheism, where nature is treated as the ultimate context of meaning, intelligence, and creativity, though not in a supernatural or interventionist way.

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🔮 Quotes That Hint at Pantheism

Here are some lines from Dorion’s writing that reflect pantheistic or at least deeply spiritual materialist leanings:

"We are literally made of stardust. In contemplating ourselves, we are the universe experiencing its own substance and evolution."

“Life is a flame that burns matter into consciousness.”

Statements like these are not scientific claims in the strict sense—but rather metaphysical poetry about science, much like pantheism or even cosmic animism.

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🔁 Compared to Carl Sagan

Feature	Carl Sagan	Dorion Sagan
Epistemology	Scientific skepticism, agnostic	Scientific but more philosophical/metaphorical
Pantheism	Sympathetic but cautious (Spinozan)	Embraced more fully in a poetic/ecological form
Language style	Precise, empirical, awe-driven	Metaphoric, sensual, poetic, philosophical
Spiritual leanings	Cosmic wonder, not supernatural	Naturalistic spirituality, Earth-based mystique
Influences	Astronomy, physics, Enlightenment	Gaia theory, Margulis, thermodynamics, Nietzsche

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🧠 Final Take

Yes—Dorion Sagan is more of a "pure" pantheist, in the sense that he:

• More freely embraces the interconnectedness of all things as a basis for wonder and meaning.

• Uses life, Earth, and nature as sources of spiritual metaphor.

• Is less guarded than Carl when expressing cosmic awe in metaphysical terms.

Still, he remains grounded in science and systems thinking, not religion. His work is part of a broader trend of philosophical naturalism that seeks to reclaim mystery, meaning, and even spirituality without invoking the supernatural.

If you're interested in pantheistic or naturalistic spirituality, Dorion Sagan’s work is rich territory.

In the film, Ellie meets a Vegan alien who has taken the form of her dead father. Also, the wormhole looks like a near-death experience. Is this also the case in the novel?

Excellent question—and yes, both of those elements are present in the novel Contact by Carl Sagan, but they differ in tone, detail, and thematic emphasis compared to the film.

Here’s how those two scenes—the alien encounter and the wormhole experience—are handled in the novel:

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👽 1. The Alien Appearing as Her Dead Father

✅ Yes, this happens in the novel, but with subtle differences:

• In both the film and the novel, the aliens choose to appear in a familiar, comforting human form to the traveler(s)—in Ellie’s case, her deceased father.

• The alien explains that this is for the human’s benefit, not a literal reincarnation. They don’t look like humans; they simply simulate familiar imagery to aid communication.

Differences:

• In the novel, the alien explains that their species is not the original sender of the message. They are part of a cosmic relay—an intermediary civilization.

• The alien speaks more about the mystery of the universe, even implying that some older intelligence may have encoded the structure of spacetime itself.

This reflects Sagan’s layered vision of cosmic scale: civilizations nested within older, more mysterious ones.

• The tone is more philosophical than emotional. In the film, the emotional resolution with her father plays a major role. In the book, it’s less about grief and more about communication and humility in the face of cosmic complexity.

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🌀 2. The Wormhole / Near-Death Experience Feel

✅ Yes, the wormhole journey in the novel also has a dreamlike, transcendent quality, similar to a near-death or altered-state experience.

• Ellie and the other travelers pass through a series of wormholes to distant stars.

• They witness astonishing cosmic vistas—spiral galaxies, planetary systems, lights, time distortions.

• There’s a "missing time" element—similar to how people describe near-death experiences or mystical states.

• Upon returning, no external evidence remains of the journey—causing others to doubt their experience, much like skeptics doubt NDEs.

Differences:

• The film distills this into a single visual sequence and focuses on Ellie alone, which intensifies the subjective experience.

• In the novel, the multiple travelers confirm the experience among themselves, even though Earth authorities don’t believe them.

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🧠 Thematic Parallels with Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)

Both the novel and film play with NDE-like tropes:

• Tunnel (wormhole) → passage to another realm.

• Encounter with deceased loved one (the alien as her father).

• Sense of overwhelming beauty or insight.

• Return to Earth with no proof, only a profound inner transformation.

This isn’t accidental. Sagan was fascinated by how people interpret overwhelming, ambiguous experiences, especially through cultural lenses (e.g., religion, memory, emotion).

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🧾 Summary of Differences

Element	Film	Novel
Alien as dead father	Yes; emotionally central	Yes; more philosophical and secondary
Other travelers	Ellie travels alone	Five scientists travel together
Wormhole as NDE	Strong visual and emotional parallel	Also present, but more drawn-out and shared
Cosmic intelligence hints	Subtle, poetic	Explicit: hints of an older intelligence embedded in π
Emotional vs. intellectual	Emotionally cathartic	More intellectually awe-striking

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📚 Final Thought

Sagan’s novel presents a scientific reinterpretation of mystical and religious imagery—not to dismiss it, but to reframe it as a response to contact with the truly unknown. The film keeps that spirit, but leans more into emotional resonance, especially with Ellie’s grief and faith in her experience.

Both versions invite the same core question:
What would real contact feel like—and how would we even recognize it?