 |
| Credit: Gopherboy6956 |
More skeptical stuff from the AI. This time I asked it to comment an old (and rather short) article in the Guardian about the research of a certain Artur Wirowski.
Can you comment this?
>>>The Miracle of the Sun occurred on 13 October 1917 near Fatima in Portugal. Thousands saw the sun apparently spinning in the sky, becoming blue and then yellow and changing size, for about 10 minutes. The faithful, at Fatima for a promised miracle, saw it as a validation of their belief. Sceptics dismissed the accounts as mass hallucination or wishful thinking. However, similar events have since been filmed, in Brazil in 2011, in Colombia in 2009, and in Bosnia Herzegovina in 2010.
>>>Artur Wirowski of the Lodz University of Technology has been investigating this phenomenon since 2012 and believes there could be a meteorological explanation. Clouds of ice crystals at high altitude can create “sun dogs” or false suns and bands of rainbow colour, and sun dances may be a more complex variation of such effects. Wirowski’s work indicates that if the crystals pick up an electric charge they could oscillate and produce effects such as the miracle of the sun. “We have a fairly good 3D theoretical model of dynamic behaviour in an electrically charged cloud,” he says.
>>>However, Wirowski says good observations of the phenomenon are still needed, as well as answers to the questions of how the crystals become charged and why sun dances have only been recorded in certain parts of the world.
Here’s a detailed commentary on the summary you shared (“the miracle of the sun” at Fátima on 13 October 1917 + similar events + the work of Artur Wirowski) — what it does well, what is still uncertain, and what its implications are for interpreting such phenomena.
✅ What the summary gets right
-
The event described on 13 October 1917 at Fátima is well-documented in the devotional and historical literature: many thousands of people reported seeing unusual solar phenomena (changing size, colour, motion) in the sky near Fátima.
-
The summary correctly notes there are sceptical interpretations — e.g., mass suggestion, optical/physiological effects, not necessarily supernatural.
-
It also correctly indicates that Wirowski has indeed published work modelling the phenomenon as an atmospheric/optical effect: e.g., his paper “Modelling of the Phenomenon Known as ‘the Miracle of the Sun’ as the Reflection of Light from Ice Crystals Oscillating Synchronously”. scirp.org+2ResearchGate+2
-
The mention of analogous reports from other sites (Brazil 2011, Colombia 2009, Bosnia 2010) aligns with documented “sun-miracle” claims in Catholic pilgrimage contexts, though the quality of evidence varies widely.
⚠️ What remains uncertain or problematic
-
Attribution of the phenomenon purely to charged ice crystals: While Wirowski’s model is interesting, it remains theoretical. He himself notes that the model is quite simplified and that the dynamic behaviour of electrically charged ice-crystal clouds remains insufficiently constrained. scirp.org+1
-
For example, in his 2012 paper he states the model can produce changes in brightness and apparent size, but has greater difficulty explaining colour changes and the full “spinning/dancing” motion described in many eyewitness accounts. scirp.org+1
-
-
Why it occurs only (or predominantly) at pilgrimage sites: One of the big questions the summary notes (“why sun dances only recorded in certain parts of the world”) remains unanswered. The unusual events appear primarily in devotional or pilgrimage settings, which suggests factors beyond purely atmospheric optics (e.g., observer expectation, group dynamics) may be involved.
-
Quality of the observational data: Many of the modern “sun-miracle” videos are amateur, taken through cameras not designed for solar observation, with potential artifacts (auto-exposure, bloom, camera shake). Wirowski acknowledges that the “amateur recordings … contain certain imperfections and the actual number of recorded frames per second exerts the greatest impact …” scirp.org
-
Causality vs correlation: Even if charged ice-crystal clouds can create exceptional optical displays, this does not prove that the phenomenon in 1917 (or later) was purely atmospheric. Eyewitness reports typically include religious context, dramatic timing (after rain, during gathering), and interpretation (“the sun was spinning”, “coming toward us”, “colours”). These are perceptual + interpretative events rather than purely objective physical ones.
🔍 What the Wirowski model contributes
-
It shows that a cloud of electrically charged ice crystals could in theory oscillate under electrostatic and external forcing and produce brightness/size oscillations in the Sun’s image. ResearchGate+1
-
It expands the usual “halo/sundog” explanation (which tends to assume static ice crystals refracting light) to one that allows dynamic motion of the crystals, which could create time-variable effects (pulsations, size changes).
-
It draws attention to the role of charged ice crystals, which are less commonly discussed in public “sun miracle” debate, thereby enriching the range of plausible optical/meteorological mechanisms.
🧮 What the limitations are
-
The model is simplified: many assumptions (identical crystals, synchronized motion, no air resistance) which may not hold in real clouds. scirp.org
-
It does not yet convincingly reproduce all the reported phenomena (spinning motion, vivid colour changes, different durations) within realistic atmospheric parameter ranges. Wirowski admits this.
-
It doesn’t account fully for the psychological/cultural dimension, which is central in many of these events (crowds prepared for a miracle, expectation, religious framing).
-
There is limited empirical field-measurement data (cloud charge, crystal dynamics during these events) to validate the theory.
🧭 How to interpret the summary’s implication
-
The summary suggests that rather than dismissing the Fátima event (and subsequent similar reports) purely as mass hallucination, there is a credible natural-optical/meteorological mechanism worthy of study (i.e., Wirowski’s charged-ice-crystal cloud).
-
At the same time, the summary and the evidence caution us not to jump to miraculous astronomical event interpretations (i.e., the Sun physically changing, cosmic physics violation).
-
The real takeaway: multiple factors likely converge — unusual atmospheric optics + retinal/visual system effects + social/expectational context.
✔️ My reasoned verdict
I would say:
-
Yes — the summary gives a solid and balanced account of the phenomenon, the scientific work, and the interpretative issues.
-
No — it overstates (or at least leaves unchallenged) the claim that the charged-ice crystal model fully explains the phenomenon as seen at Fátima or later. It’s still a hypothesis, not a definitive explanation.
-
The presence of similar videos from Brazil/Colombia/Bosnia strengthens the idea that something optical/atmospheric + psychological is likely happening across different places — not just in one religious tradition — which supports the natural-mechanism hypothesis.
🔮 Implications for your interest (spiritual vs scientific)
-
If you’re coming from a spiritual/religious stance: The fact that a plausible natural mechanism exists doesn’t necessarily diminish the meaning of the event for believers — one can hold both that some meaningful event occurred and that the mechanism likely involved normal physical/optical conditions.
-
If you’re coming from a scientific/critical stance: This work invites further empirical study (cloud charge measurements, high-speed imaging, controlled observation) rather than immediate dismissal of all witnesses.
If you like, I can pull up the full text of Wirowski’s 2012 paper, and we can go through his equations, assumptions, and compare them with known halo/ice-crystal physics (to see exactly where his model is strong and where it needs more work). Would you like that?
